Games for May

The recent addition of the Fishing Rod has me a tad concerned about the current implementation and future of store items, and whether Mit understands the challenges in Grey's current economy.

Before the addition of the Fishing Rod, all store items were purely cosmetic with two exceptions: The Permit and the Trailer (there are two trailers, but I wonder why the small trailer even exists - it's 100% not worth getting to anyone who knows what they're doing).

* The Permit is pretty obvious; it's this game's subscription service and gives members-only benefits (though I personally feel the current building limit may be a bit too harsh as it's very difficult to participate meaningfully with only one building, especially with houses also counting towards the limit). Personally I feel it's actually very cheap as it apparently lasts an entire year; I don't think $5/month (rather than per year) would be unreasonable for a premium subscription (assuming that free-to-play is at least somewhat reasonably possible).

* The Trailer, on the other hand, feels a lot more iffy; though it's only a one-time purchase, it feels like a pay-to-win item. This is particularly problematic due to the extremely dominant role Fuel currently plays in Grey's economy; fuel consumption is high, and with fuel costing 20d per Fuel there are significant costs involved in merely moving around. To cut to the chase: Even at its 2d/item profit margin, transporting Stone from the quarries to the port is only profitable with a Trailer. In the same way, I have a strong suspicion that the same may be true for 1d profit margin goods produced in town exported to the port; if any profit can be made without a trailer, it's an extremely small amount. (All of this also neatly lines the pockets of the players who managed to take control of the fuel industry at the very start, but that's a subject for another thread.)

The problem is this: Particularly now that the lumber industry is declining, it is (practically) impossible for free-to-play players to meaningfully participate in Grey's economy. Without a trailer to be able to actively make money and without the initial cash boost provided by the permit, they cannot acquire the initial capital required to build or buy a plausibly profitable building. (Theoretically by both getting a job and claiming Welfare every day they could start participating after waiting for a significant RL time, but no new player will be willing to make that time and effort investment.) This means new players can't truly play the game (unless they blindly take the leap and buy the permit and/or trailer).

As such, I had high hopes for the Fishing Rod. Fishing has previously been a high time investment-low profit way to make at least some cash when no other viable options exist, and it doesn't require moving around - working around Grey's fuel cost problem. Made available to newbies, it could've turned this situation into a good pay-to-not-grind game, the model followed by many free-to-play online games, and allow new players with more time than money to just spend a stupid amount of time fishing to be able to at least get going slowly. Instead, the fishing rod became a payers-only item, made available only to the people already willing to invest money into the game and thus likely to not even economically benefit from fishing. This doesn't just harm the economy (less cash flowing in), more importantly I feel this seriously hurts player acquisition. Please consider making fishing available to non-paying newbies, or give them some other profitable activity that does not involve moving around (i.e.: consuming fuel); without this, they won't be able to really play the game and thus have a much lower likelihood of sticking around. The economic benefits provided by the permit and trailer are likely to make any player getting into economic gameplay pay up anyways.

This brings up the next question I want to ask: Mit, are you considering the long-term implications of the store items you're offering for sale? Say that, for example, you now make fishing not require the Fishing Rod store item. What do people who bought the Fishing Rod (for real-life cash mind you) think of this? Some will understand it's for the good of the game, but it's very understandable to feel ripped off if such a thing happens. Then what about A Tractor's future? There will likely be worlds without fishing; why can't I fish there even though I paid real-life cash to be able to fish? What if at some point we end up with no worlds on which you can fish? The same goes for other items too; the trailer has an incredible impact on Grey's gameplay, but I'd assume that's definitely not the case for other worlds. While I doubt people will make a fuss about the 50 cents cosmetic items, I imagine this may become a problem in the future for more expensive items. Please take this into consideration when choosing what to monetize.

Lastly, I want to provide feedback on the current monetization strategy in general. Two vital items and one potentially vital item (if it's present at the start of the world, I definitely need a fishing rod too to not miss out on that slight competitive edge) currently require real cash payment to acquire. Worryingly, the addition of the fishing rod (less than two weeks after Steam launch) imply a willingness to add more 'pay-to-win' items as time goes by. When the next economy planet starts, do I need to have bought ten different store items to have the same competitive advantage as other dedicated players? I'm a sucker and you'll probably get my money, but as a new player I would hate to see that and would probably leave upon noticing too much pay-to-win. Please keep this in check and be mindful of how players will perceive such additions.

At the same time, there are tons of truly optional elements that are freely available to all players. Why does every new player receive 20 disposable RCs and a free compass? Selling RCs in bundles of 50 for 50 cents per bundle (similar to graffiti in CS:GO) would be easy monetization I don't think anyone would have an issue with. (You could give them like 3-5 free RCs or a free RC per day they're active to get them into crowfighting.) The compass could be part of the premium subscription, a free item given upon buying the permit (but do keep the map; that one is essential and only makes the lack of compass more noticeable. By the way, why is that not an item? Would make it more obvious to newbies than having to try F6). I notice new players seem easily attracted to Hornball; why not sell a 'Hornball permit' (more marketable name strongly recommended)? When you enter the pitch it could remind you that you could play as much Hornball as you want if you have the relevant store item. (Even better would be if only a permit holder could spawn the ball (and thus start a Hornball game) and everyone else could join in; people would want to pay to be able to play Hornball without a permit-holding player being present.) Bongochimp minigame participation is also entirely free and anyone can summon the Bongochimp; why not give X Bongochimp tickets for free daily to anyone logging in per day (perhaps claimable like Welfare) and/or a paid-for (cheap) Bongochimp summoning item for those wanting to summon the Bongochimp outside of his natural hourly descent? (There could be merit in having participation be free while summoning isn't to encourage summon item sales.)

TL;DR: Less pay-to-win, more paid-for fun stuff; this should be more likely to keep new players in and could even lead to higher average revenue per player.

The fishing needs 'more for the money' I do agree. Perhaps Mit has some plans to expand on fishing.

I hope.

=)

oh ffs.. i've just spent an hour writing a long, considered response to this then 'submit' wanted me to log in again and the text is all lost, with no back recovery option. AAAGH.
I will write again later when im not fuming at the phpbb/chrome/the internet so much. For now im off to kick the cat for an hour.

Right so.. lets try again.
First off, thanks for putting your thoughts down - this is a difficult area which ideally would have more thought put in than I can generally spare atm, what with all the other bits to do. Your post has given me lots to ponder and I agree with much of it (Would you like to be 'Head of Monetization Strategy'? :] ). I'm not absolutely set on any particular approach to these things and consider all this as part of the early access process.
A few points:

- My general inclination at the moment is to give the game an initial purchase price and bundle the first year's residency in with that price. I may do that sooner rather than later, but would be interested to hear opinions on this.

- I agree that the settings for people without permit and trailer are pretty harsh - it is basically "pay-to-significantly-compete" but I don't think that's necessarily wrong though. (I don't think "pay-to-win" quite covers it in this context, and non-paying players can still have 'fun' in various forms, which considering its free..).
Also, as the economy grows, fuel price drops, and more towns are added (shortening some of the trade runs) the absolute need for a trailer does lessen.

- I'm still a little wary of making the fishing part of the newb experience, coz - though you wouldn't guess it from the nature of this game - I don't particularly want to promote specific grind mechanics. (To me, fetching import is grind, whereas transferring items from one player building to another isn't.. so its a thin line ). I'd much prefer newbs to be playing other social minigames when they're getting started. (If everyone is off sitting quietly fishing, we may end up with less people joining in on the bongogames..)

I agree though that the fishing could provide an initial lead-in and occupation for new players that is currently lacking, so .. mebbe... (If I do change it i'll make the paid-for fishing item more rewarding, with an auto-fish element, and offer people who have already purchased it the option of a refund).

- I haven't made RCs purchasable (or even disposable) for exactly those reasons you've given for not making the fishing a paid-for item (that might be more apparent when the weekly tournament prizes start). But I've also kept those and the compass free initially with the option of changing it later. (Coz thats less troublesome than doing it the other way around). My general inclination atm is not to make these a paid-for thing, though that may change.

- I think the idea of making bongochimp summoning a pay-for thing is interesting ('social capital' as all those monetization strategy ppl used to say back in the day..). Mostly though those things need to stay free at the moment coz they need the most testing and development.
If I do change to an initial purchase price its unlikely ill charge for minigames.

- All the purchasable-items only apply to A tractor (and future iterations of it), not to any separate worlds created in the future as part of TU, which would be separate entity. The items purchased now are within the context of the existing world only and it requires assumptions about what future development is likely to happen (which you're obviously aware of given the history of the game) to consider otherwise, but this will be made clear should things change in that way in the future.

My first reply was much more coherent, thorough and balanced, but thats always the way .. this'll have to do for now and I've CTRL+A, CTRL+C before pressing submit

I wouldn't mind re-applying my fishing equip money to other things, myself =)

Morvis wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:25 am

I wouldn't mind re-applying my fishing equip money to other things, myself =)

Ditto, unless fishing is going to change

I am curious to know what you were expecting different when you purchased it?

Mit wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm

- My general inclination at the moment is to give the game an initial purchase price and bundle the first year's residency in with that price. I may do that sooner rather than later, but would be interested to hear opinions on this.

I think being free-to-play really helps in getting people to give the game a chance. When an upfront payment is required to get into the game, people will have to judge it solely by promotional materials (logo, description, screenshots, promo videos) and reviews. And no offense intended, but the promotional materials look pretty bad and make it seem like a joke game rather than the unique game with significant depth that it really is. Such materials form a store page visitor's first impression (actually, the logo and name form the earliest first impressions, before they even reach the store page), and it will both turn off serious players (because it's probably a joke game) and disappoint players looking for a joke game, because despite all its silliness A Tractor has a very serious core and isn't much fun if you just want instant gratification by messing around. (Grey's fuel-driven, food-requiring economy even actively punishes that kind of behavior.)

Furthermore, being a paid-for game completely changes people's perception on microtransactions. Gamers often see microtransactions as greedy (especially gameplay-relevant microtransactions, though there are also plenty of people bitching about non-gameplay microtransactions...then again, people bitch about everything), but they will grudgingly accept it for free-to-play games as they need to make money in some way. Not so for paid games: People tend to feel ripped off by microtransactions after an upfront purchase price; they've already bought the game, why do they need to pay more? This is a very controversial subject in gaming, and microtransactions in non-free games have become a symbol of corporate greed in gaming. You'll definitely get a lot of flak for combining the two as an indie game.

Mit wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm

- I agree that the settings for people without permit and trailer are pretty harsh - it is basically "pay-to-significantly-compete" but I don't think that's necessarily wrong though. (I don't think "pay-to-win" quite covers it in this context, and non-paying players can still have 'fun' in various forms, which considering its free..).
Also, as the economy grows, fuel price drops, and more towns are added (shortening some of the trade runs) the absolute need for a trailer does lessen.

Well, the biggest problem here is that when a newbie asks 'how do I make money?' (especially after being told the goal of the game is to make money), we can't really give them an answer that doesn't come down to 'pay real money and after that start doing these things'. Free-to-play newbies need some way to make money, even if they're disadvantaged compared to paying players. I also think leaving houses out of the 1 building limit would allow them to more easily start a business, after which they will realize that having two production buildings would net them twice the profit. You need to give them enough freedom that they can enjoy the game (especially the initial part of getting into it), but restrict them enough that they will want to pay to 'get the full game'.

Mit wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm

- All the purchasable-items only apply to A tractor (and future iterations of it), not to any separate worlds created in the future as part of TU, which would be separate entity.

Will A Tractor only ever have a single world before it becomes The Universal? When I first joined, A Tractor had a list of four worlds to join. (Though I think that at least for now it's indeed better to not split the userbase among multiple worlds.)

Mit wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm

it requires assumptions about what future development is likely to happen (which you're obviously aware of given the history of the game) to consider otherwise

From the perspective of the user at the time of purchasing, yes. But I'm talking about how you're going to handle this as a developer and how users will perceive it when their items do become worthless. People would be pissed if one day you'd just go 'hey guys with this new world all your items are worthless', but offering a direct refund for every item doesn't seem feasible. (There could be merit to doing something like refunding in the form of 'tractor points' which can then be re-spent to purchase the new real-cash items instead of paying real cash for them. You still have their money and they don't feel robbed, at least not as much as if the stuff just goes poof.)

Mit wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm

this'll have to do for now and I've CTRL+A, CTRL+C before pressing submit

For longer posts (including the initial post in this thread and this reply) I copy to notepad and save the file every now and then while writing it, so that even in the worst cases (for example sudden loss of power) I don't have to retype everything.

I don't recall fishing being so tedious. It's actually kinda stress-inducing. I donno, I guess my interests have changed =)

I think having a free version of the fishing rod would be good - I'd even go so far as to say that it should catch fish faster than the paid version, if the paid version is going to be some sort of 'auto fishing' rod (bonus for active vs passive).

I can understand the views around grind mechanics but I don't quite get the distinction between that and moving goods between buildings. I was watching a guy earlier sit between the butcher and an export building for hours, just shifting steaks back and forth without interacting with anyone. To me it's still a grind mechanic, it's just slower and much harder; due to it's exclusive nature and the number of players competing for purchases.

I imagine giving newer players more grind-able options will ultimately help new player retention (though it then becomes more a question of balance). It's a bit of a hard sell right now because if they've joined some time after the start of the economy (missing out on the 'seed' buildings) and have already claimed their imports/welfare and got a job, the answer to 'what do i do now' is 'play minigames or stop playing the game and wait'.

I used to really enjoy fishing in games like runescape/WoW because there was a social aspect in that you'd be chatting with the people around you. For those 'actively' fishing I also somewhat doubt it will discourage their participation in minigames either.

P.s. some ambient water noises and splashes during fishing would not go astray