Non-passive labour

[Mit]

A lil while back i tinkered with some systems as an alternative to the current employee system, specifically :

Buildings don't have fixed employees. Instead players approach a building and (assuming that it has supplies and the suitable production period has passed, and the player has the appropriate skill) they click a button to work the building, they get paid the wage and the building produces its stuff for that cycle.

I didn't go much further with that system because i felt it was a bit too 'grind', but mm.. what you think?

[VDZ]

If it were to happen for every production cycle, that would indeed be extremely grindy (and probably make the economy extremely slow considering how many active players there are). The idea could have potential however. For example, there could be an employment system where a player with the appropriate skill could go up to an inactive building, click the 'work' button to activate the building for the next couple hours and get paid for that. Players with the same skill will compete for being the first to re-activate a building and get the payment, lowering the value of having the skill as more people possess it (because more competition). To prevent someone from quickly claiming lots of work in the same town consecutively, there could be a small cooldown (say 10 minutes after each time) to give other players a chance to activate buildings and nab the salary. (Note that timing information becomes important in this case; it needs to be clear to everyone when the next opportunity is, unlike the current production system where only a few are using *buildproddebug or paying attention to when they get paid to get produced goods before others can.)

This could ensure there are enough laborers to keep buildings running and still gets labor money from the building owner to the worker. It would also make having multiple job skills a proper option (and players would need to consider whether they want build or job skills; do note that this may be difficult to balance, though as less people get build skills there will either be less buildings or selling buildings will become more profitable, causing the system to somewhat balance itself naturally). However, it still does not entirely solve the problem of alts being advantageous for labor (you can have them work at your own building, or just have different job skills so 'you' can work more jobs to funnel more cash to your main) or employment costs practically being zero for families (by having a family member work for you and then just return the cash), and the current system of competing with wages would be lost (because why offer a higher wage if it's worth working for you anyways?). (Though there could be a way to balance things such that the latter is still relevant using the cooldown, but it would have a high risk of leading to worker shortage as well. I guess the entire wage system only works if worker capacity is limited and thus the risk of shortages exist.)

[Morvis]

I can see this being a better suitable way of the harvest farms.
sewing seeds/working the harvest farm could be handier with one of those than just 'if it's populated when the hour clicks over, it spawns the item' way it is now. Perhaps a little work here and there by players who have farmer make the harvest quantity higher on when harvest day comes. But you can't work it if you currently hold a job or something like it currently is. A little creativity could go a long way with that one.

[Mit]

"Note that timing information becomes important in this case; it needs to be clear to everyone when the next opportunity is.."

Aye. Something like ..



That shows up only on buildings that have work available, invest ready, and for a skill you possess. So for a newb on the world its a very simple (and - importantly - simple to explain) process of going about, finding the shiny dollar signs (they'll glow and throb in an eye-catching manner when complete ) and getting the money by clicking the WORK ME button. (The button process itself will be full of immediate reward.. they'll be paid immediately for the first cycle and there'll be ka-ching noises and UI gratification, coz Thats What People Expect these days :] ). (Most people are 95% Pavlovian ;] ).

The timing and length of the work once you've clicked the button will be configurable and dynamic, so the server can automatically adjust itself to the level of population and activity. (If there's few workers, then a single click might give 'em an hours wage, whereas when busy it might even drop to single cycle).

I'm not too bothered about the competition rate for wages - if everywhere is min wage that's not so bad - but with the player only being able to have X active jobs in progress at any one time (X again being a dynamic property that can self-adjust to activity levels and demand) it could mean that active players seek out the higher paid jobs to make the most of their working time, and well paid jobs will get the most attention.

No, it doesnt solve all the problems with alts.. Anything that encourages players to work with each other (which is kinda fundamental to the whole process) is open to abuse and its nigh on impossible to determine when thats a case of genuine players working together in a familial manner or something more sinister. This method does at least mean that the 'helpers', in either case, can't just be completely passive, and so there is some essential value in the amount they contribute.

Dealing with malicious alts - without completely removing any kind of social dependency that i really want to try to keep in the game - does still require some higher-level consideration, which includes the setting of an initial price point for the game (or to look at another way - making a residence permit a requirement for taking a job), and ( e.g.) tracking when player behaviours indicate they are purely feeding cheaply-earned cash into another, and then taking appropriate moderative action - an area which has been developing over the last few server iterations and will be followed up on in server rules, terms of agreement and general policy actions.

@Morv.. Actually this wouldn't cover the farms at first, coz this system is primarily a replacement for the standard employment system, but if it works out I'd definitely look at moving the scripted farms to a similar process. (Already scripted much of that for Aramathea..)

p.s. Also note the little (barely visible) 'For Sale' sign next to the property in the picture above. Thats just a lil extra nicety in the next client.

[VDZ]

"Note that timing information becomes important in this case; it needs to be clear to everyone when the next opportunity is.."

Aye. Something like ..

Actually, I was more thinking about 'time left until next chance to make some easy cash', like a 'this building will require another activation in 1 hour and 34 minutes'...but that is quite nice as well and almost certainly more useful to newbies.

(The button process itself will be full of immediate reward.. they'll be paid immediately for the first cycle

Only for the first cycle? I was thinking more like a full payment for the entire period for which they activate the building. It kind of helps the current problem especially for newbies where the answer to 'how do I make cash now' is 'wait and the cash will slowly be paid out in 10-minute intervals'. The immediate transfer of more (sorta) significant amounts of money should also stimulate economic activity; I'm not buying anything because I just got 22d extra, but if I get a few sheckles I might go get my fuel refilled a bit, eat a meal, or see if I can invest those sheckles in some way.

there'll be ka-ching noises and UI gratification, coz Thats What People Expect these days :] ).

Ka-ching noises are a must if you have giant floating dollar signs

The timing and length of the work once you've clicked the button will be configurable and dynamic, so the server can automatically adjust itself to the level of population and activity. (If there's few workers, then a single click might give 'em an hours wage, whereas when busy it might even drop to single cycle).

I'm not too bothered about the competition rate for wages - if everywhere is min wage that's not so bad - but with the player only being able to have X active jobs in progress at any one time (X again being a dynamic property that can self-adjust to activity levels and demand) it could mean that active players seek out the higher paid jobs to make the most of their working time, and well paid jobs will get the most attention.

That could work, assuming the dynamic adjustments work well.

Dealing with malicious alts - without completely removing any kind of social dependency that i really want to try to keep in the game

I don't think reducing per-player limits and free low-effort cash opportunities necessarily remove social dependencies. Things don't have to be impossible to do alone - they just need to be infeasible to do alone, and people will be forced to work together.

p.s. Also note the little (barely visible) 'For Sale' sign next to the property in the picture above. Thats just a lil extra nicety in the next client.

Which makes me wonder: What happened to the big building name texts and '(FOR SALE)' texts that used to be above buildings?

[Mit]

Only for the first cycle? I was thinking more like a full payment for the entire period for which they activate the building

That sounds better aye.. i will make it so.

What happened to the big building name texts and '(FOR SALE)' texts that used to be above buildings?

Game was like that for.. what.. 12 years? I just realised one day that it made the whole thing look like an awful mess (Not least coz the font is so ropey), so decided to rid it all. I might possibly restore the current building name in the 3d view, but the lil 3d signs are funky and prettier.

[clementvw]

Saw the for sale sign, aswesome.